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Hello, Old Sun

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

I'm confused.

I thought new suns were created by the galactic core and so older suns tended to be found towards the galactic rim. But the first search result says our galaxy is inside out, with older suns being towards the galactic core and newer suns towards the rim, based on the calculated ages of red giants.

What does the Author Hangout Brains Trust think?

ETA - to put it in context, in a potential SciFi story a human explorer is searching for evidence of a long-dead empire on older planets. The explorer has access to FTL travel.

AJ

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

I thought new suns were created by the galactic core and so older suns tended to be found towards the galactic rim.

If new stars are mostly created near the galactic core, then the oldest starts would have been created near the core.

What is the mechanism to push those stars away from the core?

Replies:   Dicrostonyx
Dicrostonyx ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Stars aren't born in the core as OP suggests, but if they were I'd suggest that the mechanism to push stars away from the core would be a combination of whatever force ejected them from the core in the first place plus universal expansion.

It's all a moot point, though, since stars actually form as a result of gas clouds and nebulae slowly compressing over time due to gravity.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Dicrostonyx

It's all a moot point, though, since stars actually form as a result of gas clouds and nebulae slowly compressing over time due to gravity.

I remember a science prog claiming that matter is created where the density of dark energy/matter peaks. Wouldn't gravity compress matter to form suns towards the centre of a matter cloud rather than on the outskirts? Or perhaps the rate of creation of new suns is a factor.

(No, I don't know what I'm talking about.)

AJ

Replies:   LupusDei
LupusDei ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

By my understanding of current "standard model" of cosmology, all matter that exists today was created in an extremely short epoh of faster than light expansion shortly after Big Bang in a process known as "inflation." Many more matter and antimatter were created, but almost all of that annihilated, what we have left with is small imbalance in mater/antimatter symmetry thanks to some particles being their own anti-particles.

Trouble was, that matter was almost evenly dispersed. Negligible perturbations led to gravitational collapse over time leading to the universe we know.

Yes, the interstellar/intergalactic gas that is everywhere (very near, but not ideal vacuum) need to compressed to create stars, but that can happen in many different ways, and galaxy centers aren't the most benign environment for that today. Instead, most stars form in the shockwave where's the rotating galactic arms met the intergalactic medium.

Astrophysicists call everything heavier than helium "metals" or "heavy elements" because all that has to come from dead stars exploding and didn't exist in the initial universe originally (except, perhaps, trace amount of lithium). I go on this aside to point out, universe just about now reach conditions for life (as we know it) to exist. It is theorized we might be within the first 5% of civilizations possible. However, billion years older civilizations can have existed (if any still existed, in our galaxy, we would probably know) they're just even more improbable and thus rare.

Replies:   LupusDei
LupusDei ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@LupusDei

There's observations of an curious object of apparently great mass that travels through intergalactic space with exceptional speed, creating shockwaves and leaving a long string of newborn stars in its wake.

https://hubblesite.org/contents/news-releases/2023/news-2023-010#:~:text=The%20black%20hole%20must%20be,which%20condenses%20to%20form%20stars.

John Demille ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

Suns or Stars can form wherever there is enough star material (hydrogen gas along with some heavy objects to attract them).

A nebula contains a lot of star material, and there are plenty of nebulae around in every galaxy.

Considering that galaxies typically form around black holes that can have enough gravitational pull to keep huge numbers of stars orbiting the core, and that black holes form from older stars collapsing, galactic cores aren't necessarily conducive to new star formation.

What nobody has yet figured out is how the first ever stars really formed. Without a massive object with enough gravity, how would hydrogen and helium get to enough density that it would trigger the first sustained fusion reaction leading to the formation of heavier elements?

None of the current theories provide a compelling argument for how the first stars formed in the primordial atomic soup that existed for millions of years after the big bang.

What caused the 'let there be light' moment?

Soronel ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

The oldest stars formed at galactic cores because the interstellar medium was much thicker in that area at the time. The thing to realize is that many large, very hot stars would have been created in that region at the same time but those stars have long since burned out.

We are left with a survivorship bias, the stars we see now in the galactic core are the ones small enough to live for a very long time.

AFAIK stars do not tend to change their radial distance from their galactic core all that much (barring interactions during mergers). A few will, do to interactions with other stars, but most just go merrily on their way.

Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

I haven't taken an Astronomy course in some 30 years, however, I do follow the field. Friends of mine are heavily involved in scientific and/or technical fields related to astronomy. But, I am merely an interested neophyte.

What I recall is that the majority of new stars that have been detected (new as in youngest) further out on the galactic rim. Further, as I recall, in the galactic core are primarily older stars.

However, if you are writing anything other than "Hard Science Fiction" (typically only one aspect that is not at least highly plausible) then place "your" Sun wherever best suits the rest of your story.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Paladin_HGWT

Older stars being in the centre 'helps' the story, as it makes them easier to visit in number.

AJ

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